An interview with Haley Mlotek about her new gig at Hairpin, her older gig at WORN Journal and the new publishing regime.
by Kaylen Ralph
On September 1st, Haley Mlotek officially took over as editor at The Hairpin, a website that, “…is a women’s site insofar as it is run by women, features writing by women (and some men) and is mostly read by women.” She follows in the footsteps of Emma Carmichael, who will serve as the new editor of Jezebel, and Edith Zimmerman, The Hairpin’s original founder. Haley comes to The Hairpin by way of WORN Fashion Journal, where she retains her role as publisher.
WORN Fashion Journal is the glossy fashion magazine alternative; it puts the chic in anarchic. Whereas Vogue, Harpers, W, etc. focus on what to buy and how to wear it, WORN “pay(s) attention to how what is worn is made, interpreted, transformed, disseminated, and copied.”
I asked Haley about balancing her roles in both the revenue and content generating sides of the magazine industry, the “death of Vogue”, and working for free. In addition to talking shop, we also covered the really important stuff, like what Haley’s favorite shades of red lipstick are and whether, as a Canadian, she ever tires of being asked about Drake (she doesn’t).
Kaylen Ralph: I first became aware of you and WORN after reading your essay for The AWL about the infamous #Kimye April Vogue cover…while we’re on the subject of Vogue and their slow boat approach to “death”, what do you think of their new website redesign? How much further do they (and other pillars of traditional print media) need to come in order to engage a new and enthusiastic audience?
Haley Mlotek: I know it must not seem like it, but I really do like Vogue–I just also happen to enjoy gently mocking Vogue as well. Vogue is one of the most significant titles in the history of magazine publishing, no question, and I have nothing but respect for the fact that Anna Wintour puts out a beautiful issue every thirty days.
That said, I do wish they would try something different every once in a while; that Kimye cover was so important only because they really don’t divert from their own formula nearly enough. I recognize and respect the importance of consistency for a brand like Vogue, but sometimes I personally don’t feel like it’s a fashion magazine that represents anyone. I’m often at a loss for who they think their reader is, and that’s why I tend to judge them a little harshly. There’s a lack of urgency to a lot of their pieces; like, why do I need to read these pieces? Why is this writer’s opinion the most important opinion? Lots of articles and editorials seem, to me, like they all blend into each other, and it’s often difficult to point to a really distinctive or original thing they’ve done in recent history.
As the publisher of WORN, I’m always thinking about why my magazine needs to exist, why people need to read it, because there’s a huge newsstand out there, and if you can’t tell your reader why they need to read the magazine you’ve made, then it’ll get lost. I suppose I want Vogue to make a stronger case to me, personally, why I should read their magazine. As it is, unless there’s someone truly exceptional on the cover, I rarely buy it.
KR: How do your day-to-day responsibilities as a publisher (of WORN) differ from those you have as the editor of The Hairpin?
HM: As the publisher of WORN, my job covers the entire business side of the magazine: circulation, distribution, advertising, publicity–everything that gets people to buy the magazine, basically. As editor of The Hairpin, I review all the submissions, work with writers on their pieces, and control our publication schedule. So it’s really two sides of the same coin, to fall back on that cliché.
KR: Is there a position you prefer?
HM: No, I like them both for different reasons! Both jobs are immensely satisfying because they both have very tangible rewards; seeing people buy the magazine for WORN, and seeing writers through the process of getting a piece published on The Hairpin. They’re both really wonderful jobs.
KR: How does your background as a publisher influence your editing style/philosophy?
HM: I do think I’m more business-minded because of my experience with WORN; I care a lot about the way readers are perceiving The Hairpin the same way I care about the way readers perceived WORN, even though, of course, The Hairpin is available for free. I do always think about what the reader wants and the best way to provide that material, because there is no publication without readers.
KR: As publications with traditionally print “missions” move online, do you feel that the position of “publisher” is lost? What does the new hierarchy of the print publication look like when it’s no longer in print (or at least not only in print)?
HM: No, I think the position of “publisher” is always safe–it’s just that, like the rest of the publishing industry, the role is going to have to change and evolve.
I also don’t know if hierarchy is exactly the right word. There’s this idea within traditional mainstream media (not just an idea, it is an accurate description, but stay with me) that the publisher, as the person who controls the money, is always the boss; that the publisher is the one with real power. It’s true that the person with the money controls the publication, but in an ideal world, the publisher and the editor-in-chief aren’t positioned on some kind of pyramid. A publisher and an editor-in-chief should work parallel to each other. A publisher cannot have any revenue if they don’t have an editor working to make a magazine worth buying; an editor can’t make a publication worth buying without a publisher who believes it can produce a healthy amount of revenue.
This idea of an editor who doesn’t care about revenue, or a publisher who doesn’t care about editorial, is, to me, completely outdated and representative of a much more cynical industry than the one I’d like to be a part of. As the publisher of WORN, I made a point to never interfere with editorial content, because I really believed my job was to sell what the creative team wanted to make, but I certainly provided advice and opinions when I was asked to do so, and I frequently contributed articles because I enjoyed writing them. As the editor of The Hairpin, I do make an effort to work with the publisher of The Awl network, providing the ideas and copy he needs to work with advertisers and sponsors, because I want to see The Hairpin succeed and will help however I can. A good masthead should be a Venn diagram, not a pyramid, I think.
KR: Does WORN pay its writers? Does the Hairpin? You recently wrote a post on Refinery 29 about when it is and when it is not okay to take on unpaid internships; what are your thoughts on when it’s okay to take unpaid writing gigs?
HM: WORN is a completely volunteer operation–no one, not even myself or the editor-in-chief, gets paid. I was balancing my volunteer work with freelance writing and as a virtual assistant, and our editor works as the community manager of a beautiful bookstore in Toronto. Those are our paying jobs. Everyone else at WORN contributes 5-10 hours a week in their chosen positions; that way, our staff can balance either school, work, or both, and our volunteer jobs aren’t open only to the people who can afford to work for free 40 hours a week.
At The Hairpin, we do pay all contributors.
Taking unpaid work is really, I think, about respect. Does the employer respect your time, your labor, and the fact that you’ve chosen their company to donate both time and labor to? That’s the most important thing. As well, does the employer offer something tangible you’ll be able to point to at the end of your time there, like a byline or something substantial for your portfolio? No one ever hired an intern because they got really good at coffee runs; the employer has to prioritize your education, your creative growth, in order for free labor to be worth it.
I’ve written for free for other publications, but I only do that when there’s something extremely valuable, like the opportunity to work with an incredible editor, or a byline that’ll look extra impressive for future publications. So, it’s not really about working for free; it’s about balancing the labor we do for money and the labor we do for respect, experience, education, growth, etc.
KR: Do you ever get tired of people asking you about Drake and your shared Canada connection?
HM: NO. More people asking about Drake, please. It’s not hyperbole to say that every person in Toronto has a Drake-connection story.
KR: What is your go-to shade of red lipstick (Haley’s Twitter bio professes her proficiency)?
HM: Nars Heat Wave for orangey-red; Nars Fire Down Below for a 90’s goth brown-red; Revlon Matte Lip Stain in Striking for bright brick red; MAC Russian Red for that perfect blue-red. I have a lot of go-to’s when it comes to red lipstick.
KR: Who are you favorite women writers (of the fiction and nonfiction variety?)
HM: Chris Kraus, Maggie Nelson, Rebecca Solnit, Zadie Smith, Fanny Howe, Ellen Willis, Susan Sontag, Simone Weil; those are the people I’m pretty much always reading. I just read Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, because I’m consistently two years behind everything, and it was just as amazing as people said it was; An Untamed State by Roxane Gay was also just as amazing as people said it was. I loved Nobody Is Ever Missing by Catherine Lacey.
KR: What’s currently on your bedside table?
HM: My glasses, lip balm, my iPhone, a tangled heap of jewelry, and a Gary-Oldman-as-Commissioner-Gordon-from-Batman action figure. It’s a long story.
Kaylen Ralph is The Riveter’s co-founder and Co-Editor in Chief. You can find her on Twitter at @kaylenralph.
