Natalie So chats with Minna Choi, the founder and artistic director of Magik*Magik Orchestra.

by Natalie So

Minna Choi never set out to be a leader in the music industry. In fact, she didn’t even set out to be an orchestra conductor—but now she is not only a leader and conductor, but also a music arranger, choir director, community organizer, and composer. As the founder and artistic director of Magik*Magik Orchestra, which is comprised of more than 100 musicians, Minna’s job is to bring people’s musical visions to life—providing orchestral sounds for bands, dancers, artists, and more—and in doing so, bridging the classical and rock-music worlds. 

Minna founded Magik*Magik Orchestra in 2008 in San Francisco while studying at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music, where she obtained a master’s degree in music composition.

The Riveter chatted with Minna in San Francisco about Magik*Magik, Motown orchestras, movie soundtracks, and multi-tasking.

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Natalie So: Tell me about Magik*Magik Orchestra.

Minna Choi: Magik*Magik is a made-to-order orchestra for artists and creatives. We define orchestra as any group of musicians that needs to be orchestrated for it to sound and look the way it’s supposed to. So that can mean a trio, a hundred-piece orchestra of all guitars, or four bassoon players—any combination. As a work-for-hire orchestra, we collaborate with bands, as well as individual artists, including choreographers and authors—anyone creative who has dreamed up a project in their imagination that requires an orchestra. We’ve done film scores, commercials, concerts, weddings, and parties. After all, music is weightless. It plays everywhere. Every store, every party, and every car is playing music.

NS: How did you come up with the idea for Magik*Magik?

MC: The original idea was for Magik*Magik to be a session orchestra, an orchestra that only plays recording sessions, whether for film scores or for bands. From 2004 to 2007, I worked as an intern at a recording studio in New York, and that’s when I got the idea. Because I knew how to write music and notate parts, producers who booked the studio would often ask me to write them a string or vocal part for hip-hop beats and rock songs, and then they would hire student musicians from Juilliard to come play these parts that I wrote. More often than not, the players seemed so unhappy to be there, which made me assume that classical musicians didn’t like playing non-classical music. Then I moved to San Francisco, I met so many string players at my school who heard about what I did at the recording studio and loved the idea of playing non-classical music, but didn’t know how to break into that type of music. I felt like I had unlocked a miscommunication in the music world. I realized that there was demand from the hip-hop, rock, and commercial side for good string players and good string sounds, but what I didn’t know was that among classical musicians there was a longing to connect with the non-classical industry too. In seeing this opportunity to connect these two camps of people, I decided to create an orchestra that plays recording sessions for non-classical music.

NS: Are there any precedents for this type of orchestra?

MC: There’s definitely a history of recording-studio orchestras that play non-classical music, like Motown orchestras, for instance. In the ’60s and ’70s, there were old studios who had their own studio orchestras—you’ll hear these on Marvin Gaye and Gladys Knight records—but that is not the world we currently live in. So you know, if Magik never happened, you would still hear strings on bands’ records, but those bands would be put together by a union contractor, and those bands would assemble to play a session, and then immediately disperse afterwards. What we’re doing is we’re putting a name and a brand to this kind of hired orchestra. Because it has a name, it’s traceable and trackable, and you start to collect gigs under that brand name. If you have a name, then you can start to build a story. If you don’t have a name or identity as a collective, then a bunch of union players get together, have a great session, and then it’s over—it’s like it never even happened.

NS: The music industry is so competitive—how did you get your start?

MC: We got our start because I had told a couple people that I was starting a session orchestra to play with rock bands. Through word of mouth, a New York show presenter named Ronen Givoni, who runs the Wordless Music series, heard that I was starting a rock orchestra and emailed me. There was a string piece that he had been wanting to do in San Francisco for a long time—a string piece written by Jonny Greenwood, the guitarist in Radiohead, which they had done in New York, which had sold out completely, and he wanted to do the West Coast premiere with Magik*Magik. If you kind of think about it, he got so many things wrong. First of all, we’re not a live orchestra, and we weren’t a rock orchestra either. We were supposed to be playing with bands, not by ourselves. But it was close enough, so I said, “Yeah, we’ll do it.” And we did—it was sold out, and Jonny Greenwood attended. Every paper was there, and the show got great reviews. So then we started only doing shows. We only did shows for a while, and didn’t get our first recording session until well into our second year. When you’re starting a new project, you just never know how it’s going to go. Now we do more recording sessions than shows. But it took a little time to get there. Along the way, we expanded our mission statement to be what it is now. Our mission is to attract new users to the orchestral experience. Our old mission statement used to be to demystify the collaborative process between rock bands and orchestra musicians. That was really specific, but as we kept working and kept accepting gigs and doing a good job on them, we started getting calls from really unexpected sources: writers, party planners, film directors, and it was so cool to see that all sorts of unexpected people needed musicians for their creative projects.

NS: What have been some of Magik*Magik’s highlights?

MC: I love working with dancers, so working with Brenda Way and the ODC Dance Company to provide live music for one of their dances was definitely a highlight. The performance was gorgeous. We also recorded the movie soundtrack for Looper, which was such a thrill, because that was our first film score, and while you’re recording, you’re seeing Bruce Willis and Joseph Gordon-Levitt on-screen. For that score, we worked with Ryan Lott of Son Lux and Nathan Johnson, a film composer. Another highlight was touring with Death Cab for Cutie in 2012. We did a six-week tour with them and played thirty shows. Ben Gibbard from Death Cab gave me the entire Death Cab catalog and asked which songs needed strings. I ended up writing close to twenty string arrangements for that tour.

NS: You just had your five-year anniversary and put on a huge show with guest acts like Rogue Wave, Geographer, The Dodos, and John Vanderslice at the Fox Theater in Oakland. That was a huge event for you. What was that like and how do you see Magik*Magik evolving?

MC: That show proved to the people I wanted to prove to that we’re capable of putting on a very complicated, very large production with hundreds of moving pieces. It was our moment to step up to the plate and shine, or attempt to step up to the plate, fail, and really damage our reputation. So it felt like a big risk, but ultimately, we did well. Since then, the types of gigs that are coming in are larger in scope. They’re requests for bigger ensembles with bigger budgets, so that’s great.

NS: I can think of so many shoes that you have to fill. What roles do you see yourself filling?

MC: A band will email me and say, “We’re making a record, and we want strings on two songs,” and immediately, I’ll go into salesperson mode, which is the first role in a gig. When I describe what the band is going to get out of working with us I always describe an experience—I don’t describe the product. I say things like, “First of all, these songs are gorgeous.” Always compliment the band. You have to. Then I might say, “I really hear solo cello—I actually don’t hear full strings. I only hear a couple players, because this song is really intimate. I can hear some gorgeous held legato lines over the chorus and some ghostly harmonies over the bridge.” You have to whet their appetite for the experience because it’s a beautiful experience. Once I’ve made the sale, I become an accountant who makes a budget. After that, I’m the producer who hires the players, then the logistical planner who makes the schedule, and then I become the casting director, making the calls, and filling the gig. I prefer the word “casting” to contracting because in casting, you’re really taking into account people’s strengths to help you pick the right [group?]. I tell people that we’re a little casting agency for our orchestra, and I’ll know who would sound really good on it and why. Then I become the accountant again, who sends the invoice, and towards the very end, I become the arranger. I arrange my parts about a week in advance, and that’s when I go back and forth with the band to get the part right. Then I become a notator, and then a copyist. I write everything down as sheet music. Then I’m the librarian, who is the person in a traditional orchestra who prints all the music and prepares all the parts and tapes all the parts together. In between, I’m also a caterer, engineer, and finally the conductor—who conducts the session the day of. After the session’s over, I’m an accountant again. I write the checks for all the players, re-invoice the client, and then the gig’s done.

NS: That’s a lot of roles. And across all the roles, you’ve definitely emerged as a leader.

MC: Yes, but to me, leadership should never be a goal. It’s just something that will naturally emerge when you get really good at something. Have you seen those “Ban Bossy” ads that are going around? “Ban Bossy” is lamenting the fact that by the time they reach 10 or 11, young girls are much less likely to want to become leaders than their male counterparts because they’re so used to being called bossy, and they don’t like being called bossy. So now Sheryl Sandberg is saying that we should ban the word bossy. I just remember seeing that and cringing a little bit. I struggle with the idea that we need more women leaders or that we need to teach our young women to lead. I feel like I’ve emerged as a leader of some type in this community, but I wasn’t setting out to be leader. What does that even mean? If your goal is to be a leader, who are you going to lead? Saying your goal is to lead is like saying your goal is to be happy. Like leadership, happiness is not a goal—it’s a byproduct of something else. I’ve always asked myself: “How can I leverage these couple of talents I have to become the fastest, the cleverest, the nicest, and the most organized version of myself possible? How can I be as helpful as possible to my clients and to the people who I want to work with, to the people who need help?” I never asked myself, “How can I be the next leader?” It doesn’t even make any sense. The leadership comes later. People say the same thing about money. Don’t chase the money. The money will come if you get really good at something. Happiness, leadership, money—I feel like sometimes when people say you have to chase those things on the front-end, it just feels totally misguided.

NS: As a leader, what are the most important qualities that help you succeed at what you do?

MC: You have to be very empathetic. You have to become a chameleon who is empathetic to the client’s wishes. You almost have to go into their head and write the part that they would write. To me, the biggest compliment is when a band listens to my part, and they say, “That’s exactly what I was hearing in my head. I just couldn’t get it down.” That’s a homerun as an arranger. That means I did my job.

NS: Running Magik*Magik has a lot of similarities to running a startup. You’re based in San Francisco, in a very startup-heavy environment. How does Magik*Magik fit into all of that? Has the environment helped foster success?

MC: Yes, San Francisco has definitely played a key role in the success of Magik*Magik, and not only because it’s very entrepreneurial. When I moved here six years ago, there was this freedom to fail. It feels like there’s less freedom to fail now because it’s more fast-paced, and there’s so much pressure for companies to be successful. There’s much more at stake. When I left New York, where there was no freedom to fail, and I came here and started Magik, people here were so nice. They’re willing to give you a shot, and I felt very welcomed. I was in a safe place to try something that might not work, and no one was going to kick you while you’re down if it failed.

NS: Leading an orchestra is essentially leading a community of people, but you also organize bi-weekly artist community dinners. Can you tell me about that?

MC: I started these dinners through my church—City Church San Francisco. One of my jobs there is Arts Ministry Director, and it’s basically my job to ensure that the artists in this city feel loved and supported and are able to thrive, no matter whether they’re religious or not. I believe in the general theory that art heals, and art creates an environment that makes the world beautiful for everybody. A great city deserves great art. I think that’s the NEA’s slogan. That’s why I began organizing these artist community dinners. It’s just a random collection of artists, usually 10 to 15 every time—and we have an open-door policy as long as the artist is a professional or working towards becoming a full-time creative professional. I host the dinners at my house every other Sunday evening from 5:30 to 8:30. We have a sharing time where people share their work. It’s a very open environment

NS: What are you listening to at the moment?

MC: Well, I’m listening to something odd–that’s totally out of step with culture. I’m listening to the Les Misérables soundtrack because I have this dream to one day write a musical. I think that’s one of the big, artistic, lifelong goals that I’ve always had in the back of my head. I’m working with a singer and a writer, and we’re seeing if the three of us can write this musical together. So I’m listening to musicals and trying to understand what makes them work and what makes them resonate with people—at least the ones that have stood the test of time. I’ve also been listening to Andrew Bird’s new record, the Lion King soundtrack, and Son Lux, obviously.

NS: Dream collaborator?

MC: Bjork. Or Beck. Any of those two.

NS: Greatest musical influences?

MC: Bjork is a big one because I’ve listened to her stuff so much, so I’m sure it’s seeped into me. I really love singers, great vocalists. I’m a product of the ’80s, so I grew up listening to Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston. The drama of their songs feels very understandable to me. There’s a certain shape to those huge power ballads sung by amazing female divas that’s very natural, even with the big bridges and key changes.  Some classical stuff too, I grew up listening to a ton of Mozart because Amadeus was my mom’s favorite movie for five years. We watched that movie over and over again.

NS: What are some rituals you abide by?

MC: I don’t really have any. I wish I had rituals. One pattern I do have is letting my world get crazy and chaotic, where I finally reach a tipping point when I’ve had enough. I take account of every loose end, put it all down onto a piece of paper, and collect it. It’s always that pattern of starting off organized, getting chaotic, losing your mind, and bringing it all back together again.

Natalie So (@natalieso) is the creative content manager for a tech company in San Francisco.